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JAX/DAL
Feb 16, 2013 13:17:06 GMT -5
Post by NY Giants GM (Yu) on Feb 16, 2013 13:17:06 GMT -5
I don't want to bail anyone out per se but there's aspects of both sides of the argument I'm not sold on yet so help me out. What are the ramifications of the waivers being done prior to rookie draft (or RL NFL draft)?
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Post by nathanoake on Feb 16, 2013 13:17:37 GMT -5
HOU...I first realized this rule when I had 1.60 left and had just traded all my 3,4,5 rounders for 1&2 rounders. I'm not a moron (at least I don't think) but I plead ignorance to this. I'm Not blaming anyone at all...but myself. But I had no clue or I never would've spent and traded this way. And I'm positive this is not unique.
You're right that people votes would be self serving. But managers with cash would still be in the catbird seat with access to cleared waiver players and FA bidding. Overpriced players (but still many quality players) would be waived. And you could have access to them for pennies on the dollar. They would Be waived because mistakes were made either with proper valuation during the auction or due to misunderstanding the no waiver rule. In my kind this FA bidding would be fun and would Keep everyone involved ...sort of like a supplemental draft.
To illustrate my confidence in this I'd be willing to trade you my entire franchise for yours. The Denver broncos with arguably some top level NFL talent for the Houston Texans. What do you say? I'd love to have cash and have access to bid ok waived $4-5 players who would likely go for .25-.75 in most cases.
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JAX/DAL
Feb 16, 2013 13:27:21 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2013 13:27:21 GMT -5
To illustrate my confidence in this I'd be willing to trade you my entire franchise for yours. The Denver broncos with arguably some top level NFL talent for the Houston Texans. What do you say? I'd love to have cash and have access to bid ok waived $4-5 players who would likely go for .25-.75 in most cases. Of course my team would be better with cap to bid on the waived players and get picks, however you have the better talent overall on your roster currently. Of course I would want to keep my team as I made sure I had the cap to get my picks and then waived players post draft. I dont see what point you are trying to illustrate your confidence in.
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Post by nathanoake on Feb 16, 2013 13:27:32 GMT -5
YU---not 100% how it would look in the end but take a look below. I would foresee a 48 hour period where teams could waive whoever they wanted, while teams could bid on acquiring the actual contract of anyone waived. After this period, anyone who cleared waivers would become a FA and a cap hit would be applied to the managers salary who waived them. IE if i dropped a $4 player and no one claimed them, i would lose a percentage (25-30 or 50%) of the salary I recouped from dropping them. So maybe I would only free up $3 cap for waiving a $4 player.
Next step...all players who were waived and cleared waivers would become FAs and could be bid on by managers. So the $4 player I dropped could have a thread started for them and managers could bid. It would be conceivable (even sensible) that this $4 player would have a high bid of $.50-.$75....aka a more accurate market value.
So it could be a win-win. Managers who overspent could get back in the game, albeit with a penalty. And managers who spent wisely could have access to Bid on players that went far to expensively first time around and could acquire them for pennies on the dollar. I have no say on this obviously, but I think it is a very sensible and flexible Alteration that falls in line with the other decisions that have been made.
AND...the whole topic that got me started here would be ironed out in the process....rookie draft picks would retain their market value and we would Not be scratching out heads on why a 1.17 can fetch a 1.10 AND a 3rd rounder.
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Post by nathanoake on Feb 16, 2013 13:31:17 GMT -5
HOU...trying to illustrate the fact that although its not an ideal situation, teams in your situation with cap in tact would have access to deep discounted talent through this process. In my mind that's a nice concession for being some of the only "smart and aware" managers all along. The combination of overzealous or ignorant managers taking a cap hit and intelligent and sensible managers being able to buy while there is blood on the streets is a nice equalizer to this imperfect scenario....in my mind.
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JAX/DAL
Feb 16, 2013 13:32:57 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2013 13:32:57 GMT -5
Nathan, I see the point you have just made. However IF we were to have a waiver period this is how it should really take place:
Teams drop players and receive a 50% or higher cap hit (1yr only) 48 hour claiming period if teams want to pick the player up on their current salary Free Agency for waiver players not picked up - Team who waiver player cannot bid
That was teams who overspent will get a punishment that will hurt them this year only and the team who were following the rule would get an advantage
EDIT: It would make teams that have cap stronger and teams waiving for rookie picks alone arguably weaker if their rookie is a bust. I cannot see this making the league better, but I do see where you are coming from now
Another penalty could be to lose your 1st round pick if waiving players, and then get a low 20% or 30% salary cap instead. A 1st so that teams dont waive players to get a chance at getting other waived players cheaper
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Post by nathanoake on Feb 16, 2013 13:39:14 GMT -5
Basically agree with all of that. Like i said earlier...a mid 1st rounder would fetch $2.50 in salary cap. Tell me that you could not cast a net on your roster and find 10 combined players under that total amount that would not make a much bigger impact than a mid 1st round rookie especially a bust . But at least the rookie picks would still have value instead of having seemingly little value at all based on the recent trades.
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JAX/DAL
Feb 16, 2013 14:05:33 GMT -5
Post by speedyRNF (NO) on Feb 16, 2013 14:05:33 GMT -5
Is it time to put it up for vote then possibly??? And probably go by Dallas's specifications earlier. (Only a certain amount of players only up to a certain price with specific Cap Hits/Draft pick hits)
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JAX/DAL
Feb 16, 2013 14:07:26 GMT -5
Post by Dallas Cowboys (Colton) on Feb 16, 2013 14:07:26 GMT -5
IF we had to do cuts, here would be my proposal, just for the record:
Maximum of 2 waivers per team. One waiver would be free of charge. The second waiver would require draft pick compensation (2013 3rd, 2014 2nd, or 2015 1st).
Players waived could have an individual salary of no more than $5 (i.e. no more than $10 total cut). With the 25% waiver fee, $5 players clear 3.25 in cap, so this would afford most teams the cap to pay their rookies.
Even if a player is claimed, the waiving team still pays the cap penalty in this situation.
These stipulations would allow most every team to get under the cap, fill their roster to the minimum level, and pay their rookie picks for this draft. It would also encourage (hopefully) teams to stick with their current roster and sign overpriced players to one year deals, and prevent the mass waiving of star players that could make this league an unsalvageable mess.
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JAX/DAL
Feb 16, 2013 14:17:23 GMT -5
Post by speedyRNF (NO) on Feb 16, 2013 14:17:23 GMT -5
I like those specifications DAL and think they make sense. However, it's a 25% cap hit, wouldn't a 5 mil player give you 3.75 mil in Cap Space??
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JAX/DAL
Feb 16, 2013 14:17:43 GMT -5
Post by NY Giants GM (Yu) on Feb 16, 2013 14:17:43 GMT -5
Is this the kind of idea we should be voting on or are we just in the discussion phase?
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JAX/DAL
Feb 16, 2013 14:18:17 GMT -5
Post by speedyRNF (NO) on Feb 16, 2013 14:18:17 GMT -5
It's discussion now, but it appears close to voting ready.
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Post by nathanoake on Feb 16, 2013 14:20:55 GMT -5
Good parameters DAL. I envision a virtual tongue lashing coming from Crestmont who has vehemently opposed this talk. But I don't see How that would not help the league long term without completely disregarding the work that has gone into this from Everyone.
And most importantly....this years rookie draft would again be viable.
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JAX/DAL
Feb 16, 2013 14:24:25 GMT -5
Post by Dallas Cowboys (Colton) on Feb 16, 2013 14:24:25 GMT -5
Correct, NO, it is $3.75. Sometimes I am bad at math.
FWIW, I vehemently oppose this too, ha. Those are just the only stipulations that will make me not leave the league.
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Post by nathanoake on Feb 16, 2013 14:32:28 GMT -5
Understand DAL...and I would think its fair to say that thought has crossed the mind of others on the other end of the spectrum. I know it has mine, and I'm slightly embarrassed to even admit that. But things have been skewed out of balance to the point that things no longer compute to me (trades, values etc) And I truly think a meeting in the middle is in order to seriously consider.
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