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JAX/DAL
Feb 16, 2013 12:16:37 GMT -5
Post by NY Giants GM (Yu) on Feb 16, 2013 12:16:37 GMT -5
So what is the proposal you're making , Nate, that will fill time between now and the rookie draft?
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Post by nathanoake on Feb 16, 2013 12:26:52 GMT -5
Well first this would be based on the assumption that the inaugural auction is wrapped up. I have not checked recently but I would assume its close.
Next I understand the point made that allowing waivers during the initial auction would create a mess.
However, I think that more managers than care to admit it made poor decisions during the auction (just view the trading block of each team). I'm saying that if managers were allowed to waive players pre rookie draft you'd see continued activity in this regard. Players would waive who they wanted. Other managers would have an opportunity to claim them off waivers or allow them to clear. Then the FA bidding process could begin. In my mind this would create a situation where you'd see the following
1) freed up cash flow, albeit not without penalties in some situations.
2) managers bidding on players they may value, but who they won't trade for due to their inflated salary
3) managers staying active
4) inherent value of rookie picks staying in tact so that TABs aren't scratching their heads and considering a veto
I'm assuming that the free agent bidding process will play out as the rules sheet outlines. I've not seen it before, but it sounds like waiver players will be posted in a thread and the clock will start ticking. If a manager wishes to claim...they will. If not, the player will clear and a bidding scenario will start until a max has been reached.
Does that seem logical ?
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JAX/DAL
Feb 16, 2013 12:39:36 GMT -5
Post by NY Giants GM (Yu) on Feb 16, 2013 12:39:36 GMT -5
On points 1 through 3, if we were taking a vote, you would have mines. I think that there are managers that have spent outside of their limits and are suffering for it now. I want the league to be successful so if it helps that happen, I'm in. My question that I can't help but consider is will they see this as lesson learned and play smart or are they going to continue the same behaviors. That's not your problem but it's just something I think about. Just like the kid that stays in trouble because their rich parent bails them out of jail every time. They have no incentive to change...
As far as the last statement, I'm not sure I understand what would be happening there. Maybe I missed something in the rule book so I might need more clarity. The 4th point is another I don't get. Since I'm Mr. Veto (a title I don't relish btw) most of the time, I'll say that I do that because the values don't even come close or the deal just seems fishy for some reason even with the so called "explanation". The way we know the NFL draft to be and the system we have here, the values are clear to me. A 1.32 is not more valuable than a 1.1 pick. You may need one more than the other but the values are clear.
Overall, I like the idea. We need to keep this league fresh.
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JAX/DAL
Feb 16, 2013 12:49:18 GMT -5
Post by speedyRNF (NO) on Feb 16, 2013 12:49:18 GMT -5
Yes. We need to keep the league fresh. And this helps that out and re-vitalizes the over-Caped owners
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JAX/DAL
Feb 16, 2013 12:50:55 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2013 12:50:55 GMT -5
If we need to keep the league fresh, why not start from scratch every time the activity level drops a bit?
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JAX/DAL
Feb 16, 2013 12:53:08 GMT -5
Post by speedyRNF (NO) on Feb 16, 2013 12:53:08 GMT -5
Completely start from scratch?
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JAX/DAL
Feb 16, 2013 12:55:05 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2013 12:55:05 GMT -5
Well it gives everyone a level playing field unlike what you are suggesting. Look at Jax who have traded away their valuable 1st and a 3nd for a lower 1st. How can you recompense him for that?
The commish sent out an email about this topic so it should be done and dusted with no waivers allowed until post rookie draft. If you didnt know the rule then I have to say it is your fault for not reading up on the league board.
BTW, the above post of mine was sarcastic
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JAX/DAL
Feb 16, 2013 12:56:28 GMT -5
Post by speedyRNF (NO) on Feb 16, 2013 12:56:28 GMT -5
Doing it one time though is a thought for discussion... Not necessarily realistic, but possible...
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JAX/DAL
Feb 16, 2013 12:59:58 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2013 12:59:58 GMT -5
No it isnt really, I know that I would be seriously pissed off if we restarted at all. LIVE WITH YOUR ACTIONS!!!!
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Post by nathanoake on Feb 16, 2013 13:01:39 GMT -5
Trust me...I know as well as anyone the perils of being a commish. You all are doing great...and I can logically understand both sides of this. But I really think its something the league should explore for the longevity of the league.
With point 4 from above... I will use a personal example. I hold pick 1.15, 1.18, and 2.07 in 2013. I traded away lower picks to acquire these higher values picks because it seemed smart and I assumed that could waive some players to free up cap and draft these players. Again...shame on me for being an idiot but .... I honestly did not realize I could not drop players until after the draft or I NEVER would have spent all my cap NOR traded up for those pricey (yet valuable) picks. I'm certain I'm not the only one who missed this detail. My excuse is that I assumed the rules were the same as the other Real NFL (Ghost) league that I came from , and did not read carefully.
But in the current position of the league....hardly anyone can afford these picks based on their required salary. I have made considerable amounts of offers and they are always rejected with the same statement..."I'd like the pick but can't afford them"
So... In this environment, my options are basically 1) to lose the picks- which is likely to occur quite honestly or 2) consider taking ANYTHING at all of value in the future and hoping to free up cap for 2014 or 2015 rookie drafts.
I am positive there are a considerable amount of managers who are in similar shape and also discouraged and as a result less active. That's the nature of a free league.
You have a good point about whether a "bail out" would teach a lesson or be revisited each year due to ignorance. Trust me...I deal with the kid you mentioned every day in my profession and I basically operate under the assumption that I will consider some flexibility ONE time if it seems like an honest misunderstanding or mistake occurred .... But let this be a lesson. And that's what I would propose here by no means would this be something that should be revisited in the future.
But honestly....we were flexible with
1- mistaken bids on misrepresented or dead players
2- mistaken bids by managers who hit the wrong button
3- the MFL site being updated midstream while some managers were bidding on the wrong site and their players expired in the 2013 site
4- and more ...
My point is that this is a make or break topic for this first years draft. And a sensible and flexible solution should at least be explored and considered ONE time as the above items were....for the good of the league.
I've said a lot today because I'm snowed in and have time. But I'm sure I'm not the only one thinking this way.
And for those who say that they've bid and spent based on the stated rules, i do understand that but consider the fact that since you have cash on hand you will now have access to bid on waived players at reduced prices (provided they clear). That in itself will be a significant advantage to have, and will also be realistic to the real NFL.
As for the FA rules and Waiver rules...check the Rules Thread - there is a subtopic on how each of these will play out. Im just suggesting that it start now rather than after the rookie draft.
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JAX/DAL
Feb 16, 2013 13:01:42 GMT -5
Post by speedyRNF (NO) on Feb 16, 2013 13:01:42 GMT -5
We all know that you (HOU) have voted against waivers Pre-Rookie Draft, But DEN and I have quite a bit of confidence that a lot of the owners would vote for it.
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JAX/DAL
Feb 16, 2013 13:07:00 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2013 13:07:00 GMT -5
NO, I know that teams would because it would help them out. Sort of a get out clause. But I also know that teams who have followed the rules will be annoyed as they have missed a chance to get players and then if things dont work out just cut them without having the threat of losing picks as was stated when the auction started
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JAX/DAL
Feb 16, 2013 13:09:34 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2013 13:09:34 GMT -5
and teams were reminded mid draft when they still have cap left that waivers would not be allowed before the rookie draft so watch your cap remaining. No-one can plead ignorance
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Post by nathanoake on Feb 16, 2013 13:10:19 GMT -5
I do hear your point HOU. Based on levels of being financially screwed.... You are one of a handful of owners who was clearly smart and aware of the rules.
A restart is ridiculous and I'm not saying that. But lets be honest, a number of rules have been amended and decisions have been reversed based on the irrational behavior or misunderstanding of managers.
I hear your point in the most recent trade too. Not sure How that could be addressed, but we could ask the managers.
This is not an ideal situation at all...but we need to find the lesser of two evils. I've never quit any league at all unless there was obvious collusion. But I'm truly having a hard time wrapping my head around this rule and feeling far less motivated than I was at the beginning- to the point that I will likely let 2 or more 1st rounders go unused. That will happen in more cases than mine, which is what got me started on this. . I know your stance and I know the commishes stance. But I also know I'm not alone.
What's the lesser of two evils? If we stay completely put you know what will happen. It has already started as is evidenced in this trade. If so many people disagree why will No one step up to the plate and pay more for the 1.10 pick this year? Because hardly anyone can.
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JAX/DAL
Feb 16, 2013 13:10:53 GMT -5
Post by speedyRNF (NO) on Feb 16, 2013 13:10:53 GMT -5
Whatever... DEN and I still petition for a league-wide Vote on this to see what results we can get.
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